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UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

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Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 08:56 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


that's what is on paper, but you don't wage war with papers...the only thing important in any war is power, and Russia/USA are almost equal there in nuclear might so they won't attack each other unless directly attacked, bear that in mind

hope we never find out if I'm right or you
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9827179


Nonsense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136661


the history has shown that people/countries are selfish and
look first at their own interests, it's sad but it's just like that
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9827179


America/NATO/EU will protect it's allies. That is just a fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136661


Damn right! Think about it. If the Ruskies took over Europe they would impose massive Muslim immigration on EU member states and in a few generations you wouldn't have anything that even resembled Europe. EU will be a 3rd world Mussie Sheikdom. EU Patriots, remember what is at stake and what you are fighting for.

Tell me again. What ARE you fighting for?

afro
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05/17/2014 08:56 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine Reporter ‏@StateOfUkraine 11m

#Sloviansk #Ukraine forces has changed tactics from defensive to active: tonight they tried to destroy enemy's artillery w/surgical strikes
-Tom
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Inside East Ukraine’s Make-Believe Republics

[link to www.thedailybeast.com]
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


What a bunch of bullshit, just look at the so called author of the article - Jamie Dettmer, native Brit and Director of Media Relations for the Cato Institute. Cato is DC's leading libertarian-oriented think tank. I doubt that this guy even went to Ukraine, more like he wrote that piece of crap while jacking off to some twisted gay porn. I appreciate a good propaganda but this is a total disaster.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57418394


Is he a descendant of Edward L. Bernays?

propoganda
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05/17/2014 08:59 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Why all the attention to the flight tracker? What the heck do we care about commercial traffic? What is going on that is relevant? Thanks!
 Quoting: blubberbutt


Commercial air patterns are extremely important.

Each pilot is charged with the wellbeing and safety of his passengers and crew. Each pilot must make important real time reaction to actual or percieved threats based upon the best information available at any given moment.

Commercial flight tracking is one of the most realistic ways we have of percieving the actual threat in various areas.

Pilots must make their decisions based upon actual threat or credible information regarding potential threat -- NOT upon ballyhoo, propaganda, or inflated and manipulated information put out by either side in a conflict.

Commercial air patterns DO matter.
 Quoting: goodmockingbird

This comment was one of the best! Thank you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58166333

Not only the pilots. The airlines know much more than we do about what is really going on. F.e. Crimea: no commercial flight crosses over.
As soon as they avoid Ukraine, we know something is going on.

Another example: yesterday a german luxury plane from Berlin went to Dniepr..., three other Sirs come from different parts of Ukraine, too. And today we get the message of this nuclear thing happened near Dniepr...????
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Update from german news:

- Captured proclaimed Governor of Luhansk Oblast Walerij Bolotow got free after militias attacked the border post where he was detained with a 200 men army. Border guards surrendered after coming under massive machine gun and grenade attack. Bolotow liberated.
- People Mayor of Slaviansk Claims The Coup installed Goverment army suffered already 650 casualties in the "Anti Terror Operation" , this includes also dead and wounded from US and Polish private contractors.
- People Mayor of Slaviansk Claims 12 CIA and FBI operatives klilled and 13 wounded in combat operations around Slaviansk.
- 90 members of Ukrainian inteligence Service SBU killed in combat operations accoring to V. Ponomariov.
- 8 choppers downed in total, several APC destroyed or capured by federalist armed self defense Units.


[link to www.spiegel.de]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136044


how on earth people can say we are not at war is beyond me...

the Moment Russian forces enter on mass the UK and US are obliged to enter Ukraine due to the tri lateral treaty signed in 92 if it leaves Ukrainian borders which it would eventually then NATO would become involved as a whole at this point it would be WW3 but right now I don't see why we can't call it a war casualties are mounting up on both sides Its hardly a bar fight...
Tamonten

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I am in no way defending western actions, I also agree that everything is grey to an extent, but, NKVD were ruthless killers and their goal was the extermination of the existing culture and people. I find it hard to understand how any Russian or Ukrainian could defend their actions. Its like an Australian Aboriginal defending the actions of the British colonists. These people destroyed Russian culture and Ukrainian culture. Both cultures are today deeply scarred and the present conflict is a result of those actions. The West is just exploiting Russia's achilles heel for their own benefit. As is I said, NKVD were bloodthirsty demons, stealing property, killing millions, running gulags.
 Quoting: Tpotleoz

I understand your point, but is this the main issue right now for people living in east or west ukraine? If we all have to reanimate old beef between nations for a century then all countries go to war against each other.
 Quoting: attila


You are mixing things up here. NKVD was just a part of repressive apparatus of Soviet Union. Revolution (actually revolutions) that occured in 1917 is to blame for almost complete destruction of old Russian culture.
Rotten unnatural ideology of communism that used "divide and conquer" strategy to rule lands of former Russian Empire - is to blame for planting hate between different ethnicities of the country.
I'm defending Stalin essencially because he was more of classical Emperor than of "communist party leader". And that's exactly the reason why the next ruler of SU was in such hurry to denounce him.

Last Edited by Tamonten on 05/17/2014 09:02 AM
"When every one is dead the Great Game is finished. Not before." - Rudyard Kipling, "Kim" (1901)
"But we are still alive." - Thread: "The Great Game" by Mikhail Leontyev (2007-2008)

"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - Brandon Sanderson, "The Way of Kings"
"Russia is the great Christian country with rich Islamic history" - Vladimir Solovyov (Russian Jew)
Quos Iupiter perdere vult, dementat.
"Europe can wait while the Russian tsar fishes." - Alexander III The Peacemaker

Thread: I'm Russian – ask me a question. Be it about Russia or a personal one.
Thread: From Rus' to Russia - grand concert on the Red Square, June 12th 2015 - please help with translation!

Remember that future is always proceeded by its shadows.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:01 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


Nonsense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136661


the history has shown that people/countries are selfish and
look first at their own interests, it's sad but it's just like that
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9827179


America/NATO/EU will protect it's allies. That is just a fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136661


Damn right! Think about it. If the Ruskies took over Europe they would impose massive Muslim immigration on EU member states and in a few generations you wouldn't have anything that even resembled Europe. EU will be a 3rd world Mussie Sheikdom. EU Patriots, remember what is at stake and what you are fighting for.

Tell me again. What ARE you fighting for?

afro
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37648298



would impose massive Muslim immigration on EU member states and in a few generations you wouldn't have anything that even resembled Europe.



lolsign


Now that is funny.
Tpotleoz

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Mark Sleboda ‏@MarkSleboda1 58s

The plot thickens...not only is Putin visiting China next week but Irans Pres Rouhani will be there same time as well [link to thediplomat.com] …
 Quoting: steelseries


Get ready for the reality shift...
Eat the Reds
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Update from german news:

- Captured proclaimed Governor of Luhansk Oblast Walerij Bolotow got free after militias attacked the border post where he was detained with a 200 men army. Border guards surrendered after coming under massive machine gun and grenade attack. Bolotow liberated.
- People Mayor of Slaviansk Claims The Coup installed Goverment army suffered already 650 casualties in the "Anti Terror Operation" , this includes also dead and wounded from US and Polish private contractors.
- People Mayor of Slaviansk Claims 12 CIA and FBI operatives klilled and 13 wounded in combat operations around Slaviansk.
- 90 members of Ukrainian inteligence Service SBU killed in combat operations accoring to V. Ponomariov.
- 8 choppers downed in total, several APC destroyed or capured by federalist armed self defense Units.


[link to www.spiegel.de]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136044


Wow, those numbers cant be true, can they? These numbers indicate a HUGE batlle was going on. And they talk about Polish and US mercs, CIA and FBI operatives c'mmon...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Retweeted by UkrToday
JoanneLeon ‏@joanneleon May 16

Experienced war photographer in Krasnoarmeysk says he puts 95% prob they're American mercenaries (or trained by) [link to www.moonofalabama.org] …
attila

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine Reporter ‏@StateOfUkraine 11m

#Sloviansk #Ukraine forces has changed tactics from defensive to active: tonight they tried to destroy enemy's artillery w/surgical strikes
 Quoting: Anti-Banderist


so what part of defensive tactic did they use when shooting with a tank on civilians lately.the fact is they cannot get no real military achievement when dealing with the ex ukrajnian army that massively deserted due to their rejection of Kiev puppets and orders to shoot at the people. the National guard can only parade in the streets and shoot or brutalize civilians. this was supposed to be a quick campaign to "cleanse " the east from terrorists. Kiecv had everything,the whoe political/financial support from the west, the whole MSM propaganda, Us contractors, gerùan military consultors, theUE/Nato/US/Baltic countries...the only thing they missed in that operation was the open support of Charmlie Sheen and Godzilla
they get lot of money for few results, so the funders from kiev/western may get pissed, and get rid of them
Tamonten

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05/17/2014 09:07 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
And some humor time here:
[link to www.liveleak.com]

The United States do not approve to the results of a hockey game between Russian and American national teams. U.S. reported categorical disagreement with the so-called "victory" of the Russian national team in a game with U.S. national team at the World Hockey Championship 2014, held in Belarus these days. This was stated by the Speaker of the U.S. State Department J. Psaki :
- " This game had nothing to do with hockey. In the 21st century we can not play hockey as if it is 20th. The Imperial ambitions of Russian national team were demonstrated in game's methods, as it was during the worst years of the Soviet Union: dirtiest «puck carousel» conducted by the Russian team at the American gate and blocking democratic goals in their own one, it is an attempt to revise status quo and a threat to European security." When asked J. Psaki specified that she did not know the meaning of "carousel", but it was written in her speech, and it is surely something terrible and incompatible with human values: " We have no doubt that Russia stands behind all of this. This is evidenced by Putin's recent participation in the so-called "Night Hockey League" match where he personally scored 6 goals in the opponent's gate. Now it becomes obvious, it was all planned in Russia from the beginning." Ms Speaker also said that President Obama has expressed deep concern about the results of the game and said that "Russia is not only located on the wrong side of history, but also on the wrong side of geography, physics and even PT."
She mentioned that against the Russian national team players the economic sanctions will be immediately imposed: "We , together with our European partners around the world , decided to introduce immediate broad economic sanctions against the persons directly involved in the incident. Russia will pay dearly for it. We have adopted difficult decision, all discount cards of Russian national team players in European and American network sports stores, like Reebok, Nike, Adidas, will be frozen until the next seasonal sales. Imperial schemes designers and agents must understand that they will not go away with it." Ms. Psaki has pointed out the beard of Russian hockey player Ovechkin defiantly shaved in protest against Eurovision song contest results: "It is a protest against the common European values , against the choice of Europe , In the 21st century, one can not just shave his beard at his will, this is unacceptable, beard should immediately return!"
Later it became known that the 6th U.S. fleet will be immediately thrown to the shores of Belarus to strengthen security during the World Cup. The fact that Belarus does borders any sea apparently does not bother the White House.


It appeared first in Russian the morning after the match.
"When every one is dead the Great Game is finished. Not before." - Rudyard Kipling, "Kim" (1901)
"But we are still alive." - Thread: "The Great Game" by Mikhail Leontyev (2007-2008)

"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - Brandon Sanderson, "The Way of Kings"
"Russia is the great Christian country with rich Islamic history" - Vladimir Solovyov (Russian Jew)
Quos Iupiter perdere vult, dementat.
"Europe can wait while the Russian tsar fishes." - Alexander III The Peacemaker

Thread: I'm Russian – ask me a question. Be it about Russia or a personal one.
Thread: From Rus' to Russia - grand concert on the Red Square, June 12th 2015 - please help with translation!

Remember that future is always proceeded by its shadows.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:08 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
above is a goon who cant see the truth because he is blinded by idiotic nationalism
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1496863


For the 10th (or so) time here - I'm not nationalist. I'm imperialist. That's complitely different things when we are talking about Russia.

Soviet Propaganda and you believe it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54622593


Real history books - yes I do believe them. Not only Russian too.

You could Australia - Gallipoli
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


No-count. Or partly so: Australia was a part of British Empire then. And British Empire always had their eyes on Istambul because it was one of the ways to British India.

and..lets not forget the no-so small number of volunteer US pilots, who fought in the battle of Britain air war.
 Quoting: crazyufologist 58165529


Battle of Britain was a defense if I remember correctly.




Don't misunderstand me - SU was (and Russia still is) very grateful for Lend-Lease. Canned food saved many lives - as did jeeps, planes and other equipment. Also Battle for Britain was important - mostly because Lend-Lease would be impossible if Britain Isles were taken.
But I believe that to illustrate my position here this table is enough:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Tamonten


Without a doubt If it wasn't for the SU and Hitler declaring war on the US then WW2 would have been very different...

Battle of Britain was a defensive battle involving air crews from all over the common wealth and US, Poland, France, and a few other European countries the battle couldn't of been won without them, and even after the battle Britain still wasn't safe as we lost so many Air craft the RAF had to suspend operations at times so again Very grateful to the SU and It is with Great hope we don't end up in a war against you guys in Russia but once again that choice is far gone from the point of where we could of changed the course we are on now Politicians hold that key its us the average day people go will be used and abused it seems...

GL in the future buddy what ever may happen...
Tpotleoz

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05/17/2014 09:11 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Tamonten you may love Russia but the NKVD were bloodthirsty demons like the world has not seen before or since. Nothing they did was just and it is interesting that you try and defend their actions even today. Are you a hardcore Stalinist 'Evil Russian Imperialist'?
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


Regarding the slaughter of Ukrainians by the NKVD, prior to the arrival of the Germans in 1941, there appears to be widespread agreement, the slaughter being widely acknowledged in a diversity of sources, and in particular detail in the Einsatzgruppen reports. While the movement to the East was taking place, the NKVD carried out mass arrests and executions, chiefly of Ukrainians — especially those who tried to avoid evacuation. In the jails most prisoners whose period of imprisonment was more than three years were shot; others were evacuated if possible. In several cities the NKVD burned prisons with prisoners in them. (Volodymyr Kubijovyc, editor, Ukraine: A Concise Encyclopaedia, University of Toronto Press, Toronto, 1963, Volume I, p. 878, Vsevolod Holubnychy and H. M. wrote this section)

'The Bolsheviks succeeded in annihilating some 10,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine before and after the outbreak of hostilities (massacres took place in the prisons in Lviv, Zolochiv, Rivne, Dubno, Lutsk, etc.). (Volodymyr Kubijovyc, editor, Ukraine: A Concise Encyclopaedia, University of Toronto Press, Toronto, Volume 1, p. 886).

Before fleeing the German advance the Soviet occupational regime murdered thousands of Ukrainian civilians, mainly members of the city’s [Lviv's] intelligentsia. (Encyclopedia of Ukraine, Volume 3, p. 222).

The Soviets’ hurried retreat had tragic consequences for thousands of political prisoners in the jails of Western Ukraine. Unable to evacuate them in time, the NKVD slaughtered their prisoners en masse during the week of 22-29 June 1941, regardless of whether they were incarcerated for major or minor offenses. Major massacres occurred in Lviv, Sambir, and Stanyslaviv in Galicia, where about 10,000 prisoners died, and in Rivne and Lutsk in Volhynia, where another 5000 perished. Coming on the heels of the mass deportations and growing Soviet terror, these executions added greatly to the West Ukrainians’ abhorrence of the Soviets. (Orest Subtelny, Ukraine: A History, University of Toronto Press, Toronto Buffalo London, 1994, p. 461).

Right after the entry [of German forces] we were shown 2,400 dead bodies of Ukrainians liquidated with a shot at the scruff of the neck at the city jail of Lemberg [Lviv] by the Soviets prior to their marching off. (Hans Frank, In the Face of the Gallows, p. 406).'

[link to firstlightforum.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


You misunderstood me. I'm a historian - if not pro one. And in history there's no "black" and "white". Everything is some shade of "gray". Those who are too evil are being overthrown quickly because noone would suffer them long enough. Those who are too good are being overthrown because of their naivette.
It's just when you try to paint NKVD (or Stalin, or some other entity) with solid black color, I'm trying to add a bit of white.
There were mistakes certanly - I've already mentioned that my greatgrandfather was imprisoned for false accustation. So was his sister - a teacher in some village, who was accused of poisonong a well. Also my grandfather who was German captive (not that he really participiated in war - their squad was captured almost without a fight because of commander's mistake) was taken to prison to be questioned in fear that he was recruited as a spy during his captivity.
But while methods of NKVD was violent, they had a very important work to do. And they've done it fine - if not very clean.
Every country have it's own NKVD or something. Actually what were they doing really? Seeking for those who didn't share the state's ideology and purging them. Now Russia is prohibited by West to have ideology - it was stated in our constitution after the SU collapsed. But now the West have it's ideology - "democracy". What's the difference here? I see the only one: NKVD was by definition "People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs". And US is acting not very different - but all around the world.

And I will not discuss obviously biased reports of Western Ukrainians and Poles who collaborated with Nazi. Try to search the web where and when Bandera and his closest friends died.
 Quoting: Tamonten


I am in no way defending western actions, I also agree that everything is grey to an extent, but, NKVD were ruthless killers and their goal was the extermination of the existing culture and people. I find it hard to understand how any Russian or Ukrainian could defend their actions. Its like an Australian Aboriginal defending the actions of the British colonists. These people destroyed Russian culture and Ukrainian culture. Both cultures are today deeply scarred and the present conflict is a result of those actions. The West is just exploiting Russia's achilles heel for their own benefit. As is I said, NKVD were bloodthirsty demons, stealing property, killing millions, running gulags.
 Quoting: Tpotleoz

I understand your point, but is this the main issue right now for people living in east or west ukraine? If we all have to reanimate old beef between nations for a century then all countries go to war against each other.
 Quoting: attila


What the fuck do you think motivates the Right Sector?
Eat the Reds
RangerKeel

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05/17/2014 09:11 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


Nonsense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136661


the history has shown that people/countries are selfish and
look first at their own interests, it's sad but it's just like that
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9827179


America/NATO/EU will protect it's allies. That is just a fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136661


I bet you're not a Frenchman
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57655719


It's the good old AC*80 - an #euromaidawnPR. He/she was using proxies from HongKong as well, and is easily recognizable by the hate speech and IQ.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:12 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Mark Sleboda ‏@MarkSleboda1 58s

The plot thickens...not only is Putin visiting China next week but Irans Pres Rouhani will be there same time as well [link to thediplomat.com] …
 Quoting: steelseries


Get ready for the reality shift...
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


I was saying to my son last night, Obama and EU thought that this was just a little Ukraine and Nato thing. It shows the immaturity of them all that they didn`t see this whole Asian Oceanic alliance and BRICS breaking out over this little Ukraine situation.


I am now way more worried about the economic COSTS to us in the west than a full scale war. This could end up hurting like we have never been hurt before.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:17 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Mark Sleboda ‏@MarkSleboda1 58s

The plot thickens...not only is Putin visiting China next week but Irans Pres Rouhani will be there same time as well [link to thediplomat.com] …
 Quoting: steelseries


Get ready for the reality shift...
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


I was saying to my son last night, Obama and EU thought that this was just a little Ukraine and Nato thing. It shows the immaturity of them all that they didn`t see this whole Asian Oceanic alliance and BRICS breaking out over this little Ukraine situation.


I am now way more worried about the economic COSTS to us in the west than a full scale war. This could end up hurting like we have never been hurt before.
 Quoting: steelseries


Economy and Water will be the battlegrounds of future conflicts
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:18 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
The plot thickens...not only is Putin visiting China next week but Irans Pres Rouhani will be there same time as well [link to thediplomat.com] …
 Quoting: steelseries

The plot is as thin as this: all illuminati puppets.

Syria vs Ukraine - the fake and the real difference
Mercenaries in the illuminati payroll attack nearly ALL the population while the theater US v Russia is staged as background.
The first role is actively supporting the mercenary army. The second has the passive role, while pretending to support the attacked civilians.

The "difference" in the US v Russia theater:
- Syria: Russia alias the fake Putin has the active and the US the passive role;
- Ukraine: it's the other way round, or in other words "Putin" has the passive role.

The real difference:
- in Syria the freedom fighters are aware that "Putin" is on the same side as the nazi mercenaries.
- In the Ukraine the freedom fighters are not only NOT aware that "Putin" is on the same side as the nazi mercenaries but they still believe that "Putin" is on their side.
BASICS
[link to www.google.com (secure)]
 Quoting: THE SIMPLE TRUTH 52361691


Didn't you have a Portuguese flag before ?
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:21 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Mark Sleboda ‏@MarkSleboda1 58s

The plot thickens...not only is Putin visiting China next week but Irans Pres Rouhani will be there same time as well [link to thediplomat.com] …
 Quoting: steelseries


Get ready for the reality shift...
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


I was saying to my son last night, Obama and EU thought that this was just a little Ukraine and Nato thing. It shows the immaturity of them all that they didn`t see this whole Asian Oceanic alliance and BRICS breaking out over this little Ukraine situation.


I am now way more worried about the economic COSTS to us in the west than a full scale war. This could end up hurting like we have never been hurt before.
 Quoting: steelseries


Economy and Water will be the battlegrounds of future conflicts
 Quoting: Anderson_G


Way back in the old days of NAFTA, my main concern was the water rights that Canada seemed to be giving away. I remember being laughed at heartily amongst my fellow Canadians and even family.

Fortunately I have a long memory and they I think are getting sick of me reminding them............lol
Tpotleoz

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05/17/2014 09:21 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Update from german news:

- Captured proclaimed Governor of Luhansk Oblast Walerij Bolotow got free after militias attacked the border post where he was detained with a 200 men army. Border guards surrendered after coming under massive machine gun and grenade attack. Bolotow liberated.
- People Mayor of Slaviansk Claims The Coup installed Goverment army suffered already 650 casualties in the "Anti Terror Operation" , this includes also dead and wounded from US and Polish private contractors.
- People Mayor of Slaviansk Claims 12 CIA and FBI operatives klilled and 13 wounded in combat operations around Slaviansk.
- 90 members of Ukrainian inteligence Service SBU killed in combat operations accoring to V. Ponomariov.
- 8 choppers downed in total, several APC destroyed or capured by federalist armed self defense Units.


[link to www.spiegel.de]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58136044


how on earth people can say we are not at war is beyond me...

the Moment Russian forces enter on mass the UK and US are obliged to enter Ukraine due to the tri lateral treaty signed in 92 if it leaves Ukrainian borders which it would eventually then NATO would become involved as a whole at this point it would be WW3 but right now I don't see why we can't call it a war casualties are mounting up on both sides Its hardly a bar fight...
 Quoting: Anderson_G


good point, at the end of the day, that treaty is in effect.
Eat the Reds
PIR

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05/17/2014 09:24 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thomas Grove @tggrove
Donetsk People's Republic says detains 100 people for 'provocations', unclear where they are
[link to www.interfax.ru]


ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK
#BREAKINGFOOTAGE Heavily armed terrorists kidnap another civilian in #Luhansk, hit him with rifle!
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK
This is an organized massive kidnapping campaign of opponents of the pro-Russian rule.We saw 3 videos in as many days.Must be many more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57882486


They have every right to arrest those who are active enemies of their newly formed republic.

Good for them!

Spies will be jailed!

clappa
 Quoting: PIR


You won't be saying that when Texas susseeds
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55118661



rofl

Wana' bet?

Listen up...am I a shill?

Yes...I guess you could say I am.

Am I a Russian shill? Nope.

Am I a NATO shill? Nope.

You can just call me a FREEDOM shill.

The right of ANY people to self determination should be upheld by all of the world.

If the people of East Ukraine want to vote for freedom or to join Russia then it is their God given right to do so.

And dig this...if it were the people of west Russia who wanted to join Ukraine then that is their right to do so.

OR the people of Texas...or anywhere!

FREEDOM...it is a hard concept for the slaves of the system to grasp and by some willingly rejected for the comforts and ease of servitude.

PIR...Freedom Shill.



De Oppresso Liber!

Last Edited by PIR on 05/17/2014 09:29 AM
Unit 88

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05/17/2014 09:26 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
The plot thickens...not only is Putin visiting China next week but Irans Pres Rouhani will be there same time as well [link to thediplomat.com] …
 Quoting: steelseries

The plot is as thin as this: all illuminati puppets.

Syria vs Ukraine - the fake and the real difference
Mercenaries in the illuminati payroll attack nearly ALL the population while the theater US v Russia is staged as background.
The first role is actively supporting the mercenary army. The second has the passive role, while pretending to support the attacked civilians.

The "difference" in the US v Russia theater:
- Syria: Russia alias the fake Putin has the active and the US the passive role;
- Ukraine: it's the other way round, or in other words "Putin" has the passive role.

The real difference:
- in Syria the freedom fighters are aware that "Putin" is on the same side as the nazi mercenaries.
- In the Ukraine the freedom fighters are not only NOT aware that "Putin" is on the same side as the nazi mercenaries but they still believe that "Putin" is on their side.
BASICS
[link to www.google.com (secure)]
 Quoting: THE SIMPLE TRUTH 52361691


Didn't you have a Portuguese flag before ?
 Quoting: Anderson_G


And a German one
Tpotleoz

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Australia
05/17/2014 09:26 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I am in no way defending western actions, I also agree that everything is grey to an extent, but, NKVD were ruthless killers and their goal was the extermination of the existing culture and people. I find it hard to understand how any Russian or Ukrainian could defend their actions. Its like an Australian Aboriginal defending the actions of the British colonists. These people destroyed Russian culture and Ukrainian culture. Both cultures are today deeply scarred and the present conflict is a result of those actions. The West is just exploiting Russia's achilles heel for their own benefit. As is I said, NKVD were bloodthirsty demons, stealing property, killing millions, running gulags.
 Quoting: Tpotleoz

I understand your point, but is this the main issue right now for people living in east or west ukraine? If we all have to reanimate old beef between nations for a century then all countries go to war against each other.
 Quoting: attila


You are mixing things up here. NKVD was just a part of repressive apparatus of Soviet Union. Revolution (actually revolutions) that occured in 1917 is to blame for almost complete destruction of old Russian culture.
Rotten unnatural ideology of communism that used "divide and conquer" strategy to rule lands of former Russian Empire - is to blame for planting hate between different ethnicities of the country.
I'm defending Stalin essencially because he was more of classical Emperor than of "communist party leader". And that's exactly the reason why the next ruler of SU was in such hurry to denounce him.
 Quoting: Tamonten


It does seem like he liquidated much of the original Apparatchik but he and his henchmen still killed many more anti-communists in Ukraine via Holodomor and bullets. He is still a monster.
Eat the Reds
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:28 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thomas Grove @tggrove
Donetsk People's Republic says detains 100 people for 'provocations', unclear where they are
[link to www.interfax.ru]


ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK
#BREAKINGFOOTAGE Heavily armed terrorists kidnap another civilian in #Luhansk, hit him with rifle!
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK
This is an organized massive kidnapping campaign of opponents of the pro-Russian rule.We saw 3 videos in as many days.Must be many more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57882486


They have every right to arrest those who are active enemies of their newly formed republic.

Good for them!

Spies will be jailed!

clappa
 Quoting: PIR


You won't be saying that when Texas susseeds
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55118661



rofl

Wana' bet?

Listen up...am I a shill?

Yes...I guess you could say I am.

Am I a Russian shill? Nope.

Am I a NATO shill? Nope.

You can just call me a FREEDOM shill.

The right of ANY people to self determination should be upheld by all of the world.

If the people of East Ukraine want to vote for freedom or to join Russia then it is their God given right to do so.

And dig this...if it were the people of west Russia who wanted to join Ukraine then that is their right to do so.

OR the people of Texas...or anywhere!

FREEDOM...it is a hard concept for the slaves of the system to grasp and by some willingly rejected for the comforts and easy of servitude.

PIR...Freedom Shill.

De Oppresso Liber!
 Quoting: PIR


clappa Amen, Brother!
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:29 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Thomas Grove @tggrove
Donetsk People's Republic says detains 100 people for 'provocations', unclear where they are
[link to www.interfax.ru]


ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK
#BREAKINGFOOTAGE Heavily armed terrorists kidnap another civilian in #Luhansk, hit him with rifle!
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





ConflictReporter @MiddleEast_BRK
This is an organized massive kidnapping campaign of opponents of the pro-Russian rule.We saw 3 videos in as many days.Must be many more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57882486


They have every right to arrest those who are active enemies of their newly formed republic.

Good for them!

Spies will be jailed!

clappa
 Quoting: PIR


You won't be saying that when Texas susseeds
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55118661



rofl

Wana' bet?

Listen up...am I a shill?

Yes...I guess you could say I am.

Am I a Russian shill? Nope.

Am I a NATO shill? Nope.

You can just call me a FREEDOM shill.

The right of ANY people to self determination should be upheld by all of the world.

If the people of East Ukraine want to vote for freedom or to join Russia then it is their God given right to do so.

And dig this...if it were the people of west Russia who wanted to join Ukraine then that is their right to do so.

OR the people of Texas...or anywhere!

FREEDOM...it is a hard concept for the slaves of the system to grasp and some willingly rejected for the comforts and easy of servitude.

PIR...Freedom Shill.

De Oppresso Liber!
 Quoting: PIR


I think you express what a lot of what are considered as Russian shills believe. I know I am one. But then you know as well as I do that if people would lift their heads out of their Iphones long enough to see what is going on around them, we might not be in this mess.

I have no hope for that.The apathy is too deep now, and unless the wireless grid goes down, it is not going to change that I can see.
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2014 09:34 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
zerohedge ‏@zerohedge · 9 min
UKRAINE GUNMEN SEIZE GAS PIPELINE ADMIN BUILDING IN EAST: IFX
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05/17/2014 09:34 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Tamonten you may love Russia but the NKVD were bloodthirsty demons like the world has not seen before or since. Nothing they did was just and it is interesting that you try and defend their actions even today. Are you a hardcore Stalinist 'Evil Russian Imperialist'?
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


Regarding the slaughter of Ukrainians by the NKVD, prior to the arrival of the Germans in 1941, there appears to be widespread agreement, the slaughter being widely acknowledged in a diversity of sources, and in particular detail in the Einsatzgruppen reports. While the movement to the East was taking place, the NKVD carried out mass arrests and executions, chiefly of Ukrainians — especially those who tried to avoid evacuation. In the jails most prisoners whose period of imprisonment was more than three years were shot; others were evacuated if possible. In several cities the NKVD burned prisons with prisoners in them. (Volodymyr Kubijovyc, editor, Ukraine: A Concise Encyclopaedia, University of Toronto Press, Toronto, 1963, Volume I, p. 878, Vsevolod Holubnychy and H. M. wrote this section)

'The Bolsheviks succeeded in annihilating some 10,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine before and after the outbreak of hostilities (massacres took place in the prisons in Lviv, Zolochiv, Rivne, Dubno, Lutsk, etc.). (Volodymyr Kubijovyc, editor, Ukraine: A Concise Encyclopaedia, University of Toronto Press, Toronto, Volume 1, p. 886).

Before fleeing the German advance the Soviet occupational regime murdered thousands of Ukrainian civilians, mainly members of the city’s [Lviv's] intelligentsia. (Encyclopedia of Ukraine, Volume 3, p. 222).

The Soviets’ hurried retreat had tragic consequences for thousands of political prisoners in the jails of Western Ukraine. Unable to evacuate them in time, the NKVD slaughtered their prisoners en masse during the week of 22-29 June 1941, regardless of whether they were incarcerated for major or minor offenses. Major massacres occurred in Lviv, Sambir, and Stanyslaviv in Galicia, where about 10,000 prisoners died, and in Rivne and Lutsk in Volhynia, where another 5000 perished. Coming on the heels of the mass deportations and growing Soviet terror, these executions added greatly to the West Ukrainians’ abhorrence of the Soviets. (Orest Subtelny, Ukraine: A History, University of Toronto Press, Toronto Buffalo London, 1994, p. 461).

Right after the entry [of German forces] we were shown 2,400 dead bodies of Ukrainians liquidated with a shot at the scruff of the neck at the city jail of Lemberg [Lviv] by the Soviets prior to their marching off. (Hans Frank, In the Face of the Gallows, p. 406).'

[link to firstlightforum.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Tpotleoz


You misunderstood me. I'm a historian - if not pro one. And in history there's no "black" and "white". Everything is some shade of "gray". Those who are too evil are being overthrown quickly because noone would suffer them long enough. Those who are too good are being overthrown because of their naivette.
It's just when you try to paint NKVD (or Stalin, or some other entity) with solid black color, I'm trying to add a bit of white.
There were mistakes certanly - I've already mentioned that my greatgrandfather was imprisoned for false accustation. So was his sister - a teacher in some village, who was accused of poisonong a well. Also my grandfather who was German captive (not that he really participiated in war - their squad was captured almost without a fight because of commander's mistake) was taken to prison to be questioned in fear that he was recruited as a spy during his captivity.
But while methods of NKVD was violent, they had a very important work to do. And they've done it fine - if not very clean.
Every country have it's own NKVD or something. Actually what were they doing really? Seeking for those who didn't share the state's ideology and purging them. Now Russia is prohibited by West to have ideology - it was stated in our constitution after the SU collapsed. But now the West have it's ideology - "democracy". What's the difference here? I see the only one: NKVD was by definition "People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs". And US is acting not very different - but all around the world.

And I will not discuss obviously biased reports of Western Ukrainians and Poles who collaborated with Nazi. Try to search the web where and when Bandera and his closest friends died.
 Quoting: Tamonten


I am in no way defending western actions, I also agree that everything is grey to an extent, but, NKVD were ruthless killers and their goal was the extermination of the existing culture and people. I find it hard to understand how any Russian or Ukrainian could defend their actions. Its like an Australian Aboriginal defending the actions of the British colonists. These people destroyed Russian culture and Ukrainian culture. Both cultures are today deeply scarred and the present conflict is a result of those actions. The West is just exploiting Russia's achilles heel for their own benefit. As is I said, NKVD were bloodthirsty demons, stealing property, killing millions, running gulags.
 Quoting: Tpotleoz

I understand your point, but is this the main issue right now for people living in east or west ukraine? If we all have to reanimate old beef between nations for a century then all countries go to war against each other.
 Quoting: attila


“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
zerohedge ‏@zerohedge · 9 min
UKRAINE GUNMEN SEIZE GAS PIPELINE ADMIN BUILDING IN EAST: IFX

 Quoting: Luisport


Hi there Luis - How are you doing
attila

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05/17/2014 09:37 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
zerohedge ‏@zerohedge · 9 min
UKRAINE GUNMEN SEIZE GAS PIPELINE ADMIN BUILDING IN EAST: IFX

 Quoting: Luisport


from which side are they?
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05/17/2014 09:39 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
zerohedge ‏@zerohedge · 9 min
UKRAINE GUNMEN SEIZE GAS PIPELINE ADMIN BUILDING IN EAST: IFX

 Quoting: Luisport


Hi there Luis - How are you doing
 Quoting: steelseries


Hi! hi everything is fine!
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