UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 | |
hIndsIght2020
User ID: 18800876 United States 07/29/2014 10:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Yet another translation here: Quoting: Tamonten I am ashamed that I am Ukrainian! I am ashamed that the state flag was gifted to our state by the Emperor of Austria-Hungary as a sign of highest goodwill to his loyal servants. I am ashamed that the text of the anthem of the state was written off from the Poles. I am ashamed that the Abwehr agent nicknamed "Grey" (Bandera) and SS-Hauptsturmführer (Shuhevich) are now Heroes of Ukraine, and repeated traitor, whose name is still used as a curse in the Poltava region (Mazepa) - is printed on banknotes. I am ashamed that Nazi terrorists and murderers of UPA responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians are now considered the best sons of the fatherland. I am ashamed that the MPs for the most part - are a gathering of traders who think only about their own enrichment. I am ashamed that the laws contradict each other, being baked like pancakes, and will not be executed, because no one knows how to fulfill them. I am ashamed that necrophilia of the ancient Aztecs has become a national idea, and THE WAR against own people - some five-year plan. I am ashamed that there is being openly said about the President that he takes orders from the United States. I am ashamed that we have more admirals in our fleet than ships, our army is ridiculous, and the police - is a beggar. I am ashamed that the country's media are obsessed with global and total lies. I am ashamed that Interior Minister - is a walking disgrace. I am ashamed that the former president fled, leaving the country at the mercy of insatiable oligarchs, which he also served, which, thanks to the yet another Maidan received mandates for everything, including assassinations, to the extermination of dissenters - entire cities and villages at a time. I am ashamed that the country is split into pieces, as if it was the ice floe on water, and its largest and most tidbit went under the water of the Black Sea. I am ashamed that the language that 83% of the population considers natural, has not yet become the second state one, and continues to be infringed. I am ashamed that literary Ukrainian language is mutilated and becomes a defective newspeak. I am ashamed that President divides citizens to the titular nation and those who are not of a title nation – are separatists and terrorists. I am ashamed that Gogol - is a foreign writer. I am ashamed that in Ukraine we have the largest stock of humus in the world, but we buy grain, vegetables and fruits abroad. I am ashamed that the wage level - is the lowest in Europe, including Belarus and Moldova. I am ashamed that we spend precious time on worship of "European values" not having our own, Ukrainian. I am ashamed ... I am ashamed that I am Ukrainian! [link to admiralin.livejournal.com] And why did you post this here? Because I think it's relevant to whole situation. Do you disagree? Not sure how it's relevant, it's just some random bloggers opinion. Not news, not analysis of the situation. But since you posted that, let me post this: “I am ashamed to be a Russian citizen” [link to toinformistoinfluence.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 36613458 United States 07/29/2014 10:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
hIndsIght2020
User ID: 18800876 United States 07/29/2014 10:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 ForeignPolicyWatcher ‏@FPWatcher 30m Rebel push near Savur-Mohyla, shelling in #Yasynuvata, #Donetsk. DPR fortunes fading, LPR seems to be in a better position. #Luhansk |
Digital mix guy
User ID: 60306314 United States 07/29/2014 10:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31480913 United States 07/29/2014 10:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 If I'm not mistaken there are no prohibitions on short range ballistic missiles for the Ukrainian gov/military. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31480913 In fact the Grad MLRS that are being used by both Ukrainians and Russians are also short range ballistic missiles. So what am I missing? What is the problem? I'm not looking for personaly opinions, but facts/laws/treaties etc that would make this a big deal. /\ Anyone? I'm wondering why CNN chose to make a big deal of this in the way it did. Its a little bit odd. There is video somewhere right here in this thread of them getting the Scarabs out and mobilizing them, and the government made provisions to use precision guided weaponry. So I find it kinda hard to believe that it took satellite images from the US to unepxectedly confirm this. I was expecting the use of the Scarabs anytime now. So, can anyone explain factually why CNN made such a big deal out of it? There are a few problems, but is only my opinion. First those weapons should not be used against residential areas. I can't tell you how it is covered by international law (and I think you want to know that exactly), but those weapons are very inaccurate (especially Grad, Smerch etc.) and it should be used only against large unsettled areas. Second, maybe more important, thing is that there is no state of war or state of emergency or something like that. Technically it is still police operation and I am pretty sure using this types of weapons (or using military) in this case is little bit disputable at least... That makes sense and is along the lines of what I was just reading. The US considers this an 'internal conflict' handled as an 'anti-terrorist police operation' and not a 'war', whereas Kiev is stepping on the boundaries of what would be fullscale war by the use of heavy weapons greater than 500 lbs and also by the use of precision guided weaponry - both of which the Scarab are. I have a feeling those are on the way back to their home bases right now. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60877955 Poland 07/29/2014 10:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
KFinn
User ID: 55865398 Australia 07/29/2014 10:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I'm an Australian woman and I can tell you, we would like to know that as well. CitizenPerth's statement is disgusting and unwanted. For the latest on the Ukraine Crisis - automatically updated every 15 mins. [link to www.rebelmouse.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60547515 United States 07/29/2014 10:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Julie Lenarz @MsIntervention · 1 min Quoting: by by london town 27249077 British ambassador to the United States Sir Peter Westmacott calls #Putin a "thug" and a "liar". [link to www.telegraph.co.uk] … … … Now that England and the US are kosher, even the cattle men engage in chutzpah. The ruling class and chosen are certainly raping up the scorn and abuse. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31480913 United States 07/29/2014 10:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Julie Lenarz @MsIntervention · 1 min Quoting: by by london town 27249077 British ambassador to the United States Sir Peter Westmacott calls #Putin a "thug" and a "liar". [link to www.telegraph.co.uk] … … … Diplomacy at its finest... Yeah I agree. I dont like Putin, but I dont like to see politicians using this sort of language either. Its the kind of thing I would expect from us here in online forums or in personal conversation maybe, but not from a professional politician who wants to be considered respectable and credible. They should state real views and facts to make their point - not unintelligent, name-calling, personal attacks. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60739782 United States 07/29/2014 10:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Yet another translation here: Quoting: Tamonten I am ashamed that I am Ukrainian! I am ashamed that the state flag was gifted to our state by the Emperor of Austria-Hungary as a sign of highest goodwill to his loyal servants. I am ashamed that the text of the anthem of the state was written off from the Poles. I am ashamed that the Abwehr agent nicknamed "Grey" (Bandera) and SS-Hauptsturmführer (Shuhevich) are now Heroes of Ukraine, and repeated traitor, whose name is still used as a curse in the Poltava region (Mazepa) - is printed on banknotes. I am ashamed that Nazi terrorists and murderers of UPA responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians are now considered the best sons of the fatherland. I am ashamed that the MPs for the most part - are a gathering of traders who think only about their own enrichment. I am ashamed that the laws contradict each other, being baked like pancakes, and will not be executed, because no one knows how to fulfill them. I am ashamed that necrophilia of the ancient Aztecs has become a national idea, and THE WAR against own people - some five-year plan. I am ashamed that there is being openly said about the President that he takes orders from the United States. I am ashamed that we have more admirals in our fleet than ships, our army is ridiculous, and the police - is a beggar. I am ashamed that the country's media are obsessed with global and total lies. I am ashamed that Interior Minister - is a walking disgrace. I am ashamed that the former president fled, leaving the country at the mercy of insatiable oligarchs, which he also served, which, thanks to the yet another Maidan received mandates for everything, including assassinations, to the extermination of dissenters - entire cities and villages at a time. I am ashamed that the country is split into pieces, as if it was the ice floe on water, and its largest and most tidbit went under the water of the Black Sea. I am ashamed that the language that 83% of the population considers natural, has not yet become the second state one, and continues to be infringed. I am ashamed that literary Ukrainian language is mutilated and becomes a defective newspeak. I am ashamed that President divides citizens to the titular nation and those who are not of a title nation – are separatists and terrorists. I am ashamed that Gogol - is a foreign writer. I am ashamed that in Ukraine we have the largest stock of humus in the world, but we buy grain, vegetables and fruits abroad. I am ashamed that the wage level - is the lowest in Europe, including Belarus and Moldova. I am ashamed that we spend precious time on worship of "European values" not having our own, Ukrainian. I am ashamed ... I am ashamed that I am Ukrainian! [link to admiralin.livejournal.com] So sad. Yet, many Americans feel the same way. It's not always about money. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31480913 United States 07/29/2014 10:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Julie Lenarz @MsIntervention · 1 min Quoting: by by london town 27249077 British ambassador to the United States Sir Peter Westmacott calls #Putin a "thug" and a "liar". [link to www.telegraph.co.uk] … … … Diplomacy at its finest... Yeah I agree. I dont like Putin, but I dont like to see politicians using this sort of language either. Its the kind of thing I would expect from us here in online forums or in personal conversation maybe, but not from a professional politician who wants to be considered respectable and credible. They should state real views and facts to make their point - not unintelligent, name-calling, personal attacks. Also, as much as I dislike both Obama and Putin - you will never hear them using that sort of language. They have more class and character than that, as any leader/national-level politician should. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60739782 United States 07/29/2014 10:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I'm an Australian woman and I can tell you, we would like to know that as well. CitizenPerth's statement is disgusting and unwanted. If you are new to GLP, maybe you don't understand the nature of this place. It's always been wild and free but has been toned down a little of recent. Too many Baptists, I guess. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60931034 United States 07/29/2014 11:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Serbian Chetnik commander denied information about his capture Bratislav Zivkovic denied information about his capture. Commander of Chetnik movement Bratislav Zivkovic, a volunteer fighting in Donbass, denied information about his capture by the Ukrainian military. Recall that recently appeared in the Ukrainian press publications that Zivkovic was captured under Debalcevo. "God help you! Now from my fellow Cossacks I received information that the Nazis boast about my capture. We laughed a good couple of hours, so I did not know that I was captured. Chetnik squad "Jovan Shevich" is as strong as ever. The position we hold is well fortified and fascists here will not pass! Two of the three wounded Chetniks will return to the detachment, and one underwent surgery on both legs and is recovering in the hospital. Congratulations to all of you with Shroud of the Mother of God, protector of Slavic Chetnik group "Jovan Shevich." Bratislav Živković Commander of Chetnik movement. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60877955 Poland 07/29/2014 11:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Julie Lenarz @MsIntervention · 1 min Quoting: by by london town 27249077 British ambassador to the United States Sir Peter Westmacott calls #Putin a "thug" and a "liar". [link to www.telegraph.co.uk] … … … Diplomacy at its finest... Yeah I agree. I dont like Putin, but I dont like to see politicians using this sort of language either. Its the kind of thing I would expect from us here in online forums or in personal conversation maybe, but not from a professional politician who wants to be considered respectable and credible. They should state real views and facts to make their point - not unintelligent, name-calling, personal attacks. Add the media to it: most unprofessional, primitive and defamatory they are with that respect. That's the thing made me smell "someone" is pretty desperate to put the Rooskies in false light. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11075390 United States 07/29/2014 11:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I was expecting the use of the Scarabs anytime now. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31480913 So, can anyone explain factually why CNN made such a big deal out of it? There are a few problems, but is only my opinion. First those weapons should not be used against residential areas. I can't tell you how it is covered by international law (and I think you want to know that exactly), but those weapons are very inaccurate (especially Grad, Smerch etc.) and it should be used only against large unsettled areas. Second, maybe more important, thing is that there is no state of war or state of emergency or something like that. Technically it is still police operation and I am pretty sure using this types of weapons (or using military) in this case is little bit disputable at least... As long as the people they are fighting against are not fighting under a foreign flag, then it’s considered an internal conflict, and international law does not apply. If the people fighting are citizens from another country that are not fighting as an identified portion of a foreign military force, then they are considered to be along the lines of mercenaries, and they are specifically excluded from protection by international law. Not just outside the bounds of international protection, they are specifically excluded from any protection. So the host country is free to literally do with them AS THEY PLEASE! There is NO limit to the force they can use, and there are no rules as to what they can do with them after they capture them, and that would be assuming that they would even waste the time to take them captive. The foreign fighters could peacefully surrender and the Ukrainian military, or Ukrainian citizens could line them up against a wall and shoot them to the last person, then throw them in garbage trucks to be hauled off to the landfill, and they would not break a single international law. They wouldn’t even have to ask them for name, and serial number before doing it either. If the people were fighting are fighting under a foreign flag as an identified portion of an outside military force, then it would be considered a hostile invasion and would open up the attacking country to an unlimited counter strike. That is why Russia has not done that yet. Look up Syria to get a working lesson in how that type of conflict plays out when the controlling government truly does not care about civilian casualties. It makes Ukraine pale in comparison. Yet Syria is not breaking any international laws. Yes, the US and other countries harped and hollered about the innocent civilians being lost, but it stopped at that because there was no legal bases to do anything about it when the UN would not agree to any action. If Ukraine really wanted to get serious like Syria did, they could just start leveling cities and be done with it. There would be no international legal implications to it. They would have the full blessing of the Geneva Convention as it currently stands today. Heck, if they wanted to nuke some of the cities that were fighting, it would still be perfectly fine by international law. That is why it gets me about people complaining about the casualties caused by the Ukrainian military. In my honest opinion, they have shown an EXTREME amount of restraint in the face of blatant aggression. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 46191062 United Kingdom 07/29/2014 11:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Rebel push near Savur-Mohyla, shelling in #Yasynuvata, #Donetsk. DPR fortunes fading, LPR seems to be in a better position. #Luhansk Wait, so Bez, Girkin, Borodai and Pushilin are really hiding in Luhansk? Russians are so adept at releasing disinformation I think they are tricking themselves. It is almost like the Defense Ministry and GRU and FSB are waging counter-intelligence information operations against one another. A vicious disinfo triangle. In light of this revelation, I think the Russians really do believe Ukies shot down MH17. Though it still doesn't explain Putin's palm prints found all over the fuselage. |
KFinn
User ID: 55865398 Australia 07/29/2014 11:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I'm an Australian woman and I can tell you, we would like to know that as well. CitizenPerth's statement is disgusting and unwanted. If you are new to GLP, maybe you don't understand the nature of this place. It's always been wild and free but has been toned down a little of recent. Too many Baptists, I guess. I've been here for about 4 years but under a different and lapsed ID. I reactivated under this one at the beginning of this year. I'm well aware of the free and easy atmosphere here but that kind of language has usually been left for other types of threads. I personally view this thread in an historical context and will become very valuable. As such I think most people here have kept their 'free' language toned down. For the latest on the Ukraine Crisis - automatically updated every 15 mins. [link to www.rebelmouse.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 46191062 United Kingdom 07/29/2014 11:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Serbian Chetnik commander denied information about his capture Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60931034 Bratislav Zivkovic denied information about his capture. Commander of Chetnik movement Bratislav Zivkovic, a volunteer fighting in Donbass, denied information about his capture by the Ukrainian military. Recall that recently appeared in the Ukrainian press publications that Zivkovic was captured under Debalcevo. "God help you! Now from my fellow Cossacks I received information that the Nazis boast about my capture. We laughed a good couple of hours, so I did not know that I was captured. Chetnik squad "Jovan Shevich" is as strong as ever. The position we hold is well fortified and fascists here will not pass! Two of the three wounded Chetniks will return to the detachment, and one underwent surgery on both legs and is recovering in the hospital. Congratulations to all of you with Shroud of the Mother of God, protector of Slavic Chetnik group "Jovan Shevich." Bratislav Živković Commander of Chetnik movement. Jesus Christ. Calm down Brati. You're fighting a losing war, not reading for a Hollywood movie. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60547515 United States 07/29/2014 11:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I was expecting the use of the Scarabs anytime now. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31480913 So, can anyone explain factually why CNN made such a big deal out of it? There are a few problems, but is only my opinion. First those weapons should not be used against residential areas. I can't tell you how it is covered by international law (and I think you want to know that exactly), but those weapons are very inaccurate (especially Grad, Smerch etc.) and it should be used only against large unsettled areas. Second, maybe more important, thing is that there is no state of war or state of emergency or something like that. Technically it is still police operation and I am pretty sure using this types of weapons (or using military) in this case is little bit disputable at least... As long as the people they are fighting against are not fighting under a foreign flag, then it’s considered an internal conflict, and international law does not apply. If the people fighting are citizens from another country that are not fighting as an identified portion of a foreign military force, then they are considered to be along the lines of mercenaries, and they are specifically excluded from protection by international law. Not just outside the bounds of international protection, they are specifically excluded from any protection. So the host country is free to literally do with them AS THEY PLEASE! There is NO limit to the force they can use, and there are no rules as to what they can do with them after they capture them, and that would be assuming that they would even waste the time to take them captive. The foreign fighters could peacefully surrender and the Ukrainian military, or Ukrainian citizens could line them up against a wall and shoot them to the last person, then throw them in garbage trucks to be hauled off to the landfill, and they would not break a single international law. They wouldn’t even have to ask them for name, and serial number before doing it either. If the people were fighting are fighting under a foreign flag as an identified portion of an outside military force, then it would be considered a hostile invasion and would open up the attacking country to an unlimited counter strike. That is why Russia has not done that yet. Look up Syria to get a working lesson in how that type of conflict plays out when the controlling government truly does not care about civilian casualties. It makes Ukraine pale in comparison. Yet Syria is not breaking any international laws. Yes, the US and other countries harped and hollered about the innocent civilians being lost, but it stopped at that because there was no legal bases to do anything about it when the UN would not agree to any action. If Ukraine really wanted to get serious like Syria did, they could just start leveling cities and be done with it. There would be no international legal implications to it. They would have the full blessing of the Geneva Convention as it currently stands today. Heck, if they wanted to nuke some of the cities that were fighting, it would still be perfectly fine by international law. That is why it gets me about people complaining about the casualties caused by the Ukrainian military. In my honest opinion, they have shown an EXTREME amount of restraint in the face of blatant aggression. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27249077 United States 07/29/2014 11:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Julie Lenarz @MsIntervention · 1 min British ambassador to the United States Sir Peter Westmacott calls #Putin a "thug" and a "liar". [link to www.telegraph.co.uk] … … Professionals paid idiots looking for a fight,look no further … |
Tamonten
User ID: 34754802 Russia 07/30/2014 12:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I was expecting the use of the Scarabs anytime now. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31480913 So, can anyone explain factually why CNN made such a big deal out of it? There are a few problems, but is only my opinion. First those weapons should not be used against residential areas. I can't tell you how it is covered by international law (and I think you want to know that exactly), but those weapons are very inaccurate (especially Grad, Smerch etc.) and it should be used only against large unsettled areas. Second, maybe more important, thing is that there is no state of war or state of emergency or something like that. Technically it is still police operation and I am pretty sure using this types of weapons (or using military) in this case is little bit disputable at least... As long as the people they are fighting against are not fighting under a foreign flag, then it’s considered an internal conflict, and international law does not apply. If the people fighting are citizens from another country that are not fighting as an identified portion of a foreign military force, then they are considered to be along the lines of mercenaries, and they are specifically excluded from protection by international law. Not just outside the bounds of international protection, they are specifically excluded from any protection. So the host country is free to literally do with them AS THEY PLEASE! There is NO limit to the force they can use, and there are no rules as to what they can do with them after they capture them, and that would be assuming that they would even waste the time to take them captive. The foreign fighters could peacefully surrender and the Ukrainian military, or Ukrainian citizens could line them up against a wall and shoot them to the last person, then throw them in garbage trucks to be hauled off to the landfill, and they would not break a single international law. They wouldn’t even have to ask them for name, and serial number before doing it either. If the people were fighting are fighting under a foreign flag as an identified portion of an outside military force, then it would be considered a hostile invasion and would open up the attacking country to an unlimited counter strike. That is why Russia has not done that yet. Look up Syria to get a working lesson in how that type of conflict plays out when the controlling government truly does not care about civilian casualties. It makes Ukraine pale in comparison. Yet Syria is not breaking any international laws. Yes, the US and other countries harped and hollered about the innocent civilians being lost, but it stopped at that because there was no legal bases to do anything about it when the UN would not agree to any action. If Ukraine really wanted to get serious like Syria did, they could just start leveling cities and be done with it. There would be no international legal implications to it. They would have the full blessing of the Geneva Convention as it currently stands today. Heck, if they wanted to nuke some of the cities that were fighting, it would still be perfectly fine by international law. That is why it gets me about people complaining about the casualties caused by the Ukrainian military. In my honest opinion, they have shown an EXTREME amount of restraint in the face of blatant aggression. Wait, do you really believe that? Really? Last Edited by Tamonten on 07/30/2014 12:03 AM "When every one is dead the Great Game is finished. Not before." - Rudyard Kipling, "Kim" (1901) "But we are still alive." - Thread: "The Great Game" by Mikhail Leontyev (2007-2008) "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - Brandon Sanderson, "The Way of Kings" "Russia is the great Christian country with rich Islamic history" - Vladimir Solovyov (Russian Jew) Quos Iupiter perdere vult, dementat. "Europe can wait while the Russian tsar fishes." - Alexander III The Peacemaker Thread: I'm Russian – ask me a question. Be it about Russia or a personal one. Thread: From Rus' to Russia - grand concert on the Red Square, June 12th 2015 - please help with translation! Remember that future is always proceeded by its shadows. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 57589670 United States 07/30/2014 12:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 Julie Lenarz @MsIntervention · 1 min Quoting: by by london town 27249077 British ambassador to the United States Sir Peter Westmacott calls #Putin a "thug" and a "liar". [link to www.telegraph.co.uk] … … … Diplomacy at its finest... Yeah I agree. I dont like Putin, but I dont like to see politicians using this sort of language either. Its the kind of thing I would expect from us here in online forums or in personal conversation maybe, but not from a professional politician who wants to be considered respectable and credible. They should state real views and facts to make their point - not unintelligent, name-calling, personal attacks. The name calling erupts in international politics for the same reason it erupts on GLP. The person doing the name calling is losing the argument and doesn't know what else to do. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 54557993 Canada 07/30/2014 01:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 54557993 Canada 07/30/2014 01:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
dschis1000
User ID: 47839898 United States 07/30/2014 01:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31480913 United States 07/30/2014 02:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
KFinn
User ID: 55865398 Australia 07/30/2014 02:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 How serious are the new sanctions by EU and US? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31480913 Will it really hit the Russian economy hard, or not have much impact? I can't see the sanctions hurting them. Russia spent most of last century being self sufficient so they will know how to deal with it. Also, they will just continue dealing with other wealthy nations like, China. Speaking of China, just watch all the western nations use China as a 3rd party broker for economic deals between Russia and the West. These sanctions are only for the populist vote and nothing more. Business will go on as usual and China will become the go-between nation. For the latest on the Ukraine Crisis - automatically updated every 15 mins. [link to www.rebelmouse.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 33760534 Canada 07/30/2014 02:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 7 Reasons Putin's New Russia will fail Staunton, July 29 – As the Ukrainian military closes in on Moscow-backed forces in southeastern Ukraine, Russian commentators are scrambling to explain why the Russian-speaking population in that region have not flocked to the banners of the secessionists in Donetsk and Lugansk. Not surprisingly, these commentators have not focused on the fact that the population there now overwhelmingly identifies as Ukrainians and has no interest in becoming part of the Russian Federation. What they are saying explains a lot about how Moscow is trying to explain away its own miscalculation about the support it would receive. The “Voennoye obozreniye” portal, which is directed at Russian military and patriotic groups, today re-posed a Russian blogger’s list of “the seven reasons why men in the Donbas don’t want to fight in the ranks of the militants” from. Based on a visit to the region, the blogger, whose screen name is Politchanka, lists the following reasons: 1. “The absence of an authoritative leader among the militants,” including the fact that most of those in prominent positions are not local but from Russia and Moscow. Many people there, she says, “do not like Muscovites.” 2. “The negative example of the ‘heavenly hundred.’” The memory of the deaths of more than 100 people on the Maidan suggests that fighting at the risk of the loss of one’s own life may be pointless. “In the opinion of the Donetsk people, only fools fight and die for some idea; smart people survive and vacation in Crimea.” 3. “Marauding and extortion.” People have been put off, Politchanka continues, by the theft of automobiles by unidentified people and the fact that the authorities are incapable of doing anything about this. 4. “The militants do not defend the cities.” The militants defend their own houses; but when Ukrainian forces attack the towns, they “depart” for somewhere quiet, something others cannot do. 5. “Internal splits.” “It is no secret,” she writes, that the leaders are constantly fighting among themselves about who is the most important." 6. “The inability of the militants to maintain normal everyday infrastructure in the city.” Stores, schools and hospitals are closed, and “people do not see any prospects.” As a result, “they aren’t joining the ranks of the militants.” 7. “The lack of correspondence between the expectations the referendum sparked and reality.” People in Donetsk and Lugansk hoped everything would be as it was in Crimea. “No one told them that they would be bombed and have to sit in basements without having the opportunity even to eat normally. “Therefore they do not want to fight.” "Why People in Eastern Ukraine Haven’t Flocked to Secessionist Banners" by: Paul Goble [link to www.interpretermag.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11075390 United States 07/30/2014 02:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 I was expecting the use of the Scarabs anytime now. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31480913 So, can anyone explain factually why CNN made such a big deal out of it? There are a few problems, but is only my opinion. First those weapons should not be used against residential areas. I can't tell you how it is covered by international law (and I think you want to know that exactly), but those weapons are very inaccurate (especially Grad, Smerch etc.) and it should be used only against large unsettled areas. Second, maybe more important, thing is that there is no state of war or state of emergency or something like that. Technically it is still police operation and I am pretty sure using this types of weapons (or using military) in this case is little bit disputable at least... As long as the people they are fighting against are not fighting under a foreign flag, then it’s considered an internal conflict, and international law does not apply. If the people fighting are citizens from another country that are not fighting as an identified portion of a foreign military force, then they are considered to be along the lines of mercenaries, and they are specifically excluded from protection by international law. Not just outside the bounds of international protection, they are specifically excluded from any protection. So the host country is free to literally do with them AS THEY PLEASE! There is NO limit to the force they can use, and there are no rules as to what they can do with them after they capture them, and that would be assuming that they would even waste the time to take them captive. The foreign fighters could peacefully surrender and the Ukrainian military, or Ukrainian citizens could line them up against a wall and shoot them to the last person, then throw them in garbage trucks to be hauled off to the landfill, and they would not break a single international law. They wouldn’t even have to ask them for name, and serial number before doing it either. If the people were fighting are fighting under a foreign flag as an identified portion of an outside military force, then it would be considered a hostile invasion and would open up the attacking country to an unlimited counter strike. That is why Russia has not done that yet. Look up Syria to get a working lesson in how that type of conflict plays out when the controlling government truly does not care about civilian casualties. It makes Ukraine pale in comparison. Yet Syria is not breaking any international laws. Yes, the US and other countries harped and hollered about the innocent civilians being lost, but it stopped at that because there was no legal bases to do anything about it when the UN would not agree to any action. If Ukraine really wanted to get serious like Syria did, they could just start leveling cities and be done with it. There would be no international legal implications to it. They would have the full blessing of the Geneva Convention as it currently stands today. Heck, if they wanted to nuke some of the cities that were fighting, it would still be perfectly fine by international law. That is why it gets me about people complaining about the casualties caused by the Ukrainian military. In my honest opinion, they have shown an EXTREME amount of restraint in the face of blatant aggression. Wait, do you really believe that? Really? General GC Quote............ "Article 3 In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture (b) taking of hostages (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. (2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for. An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict" General GC quote............... "Part I. General Provisions Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State. Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention. In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be." A wiki quote that explains it nicely........... [link to en.wikipedia.org] "If, after a fair and regular trial, an individual is found guilty of a crime, they can be punished by whatever lawful methods are available to the party to the conflict." The wiki quote isn’t really needed to be honest because the Geneva Convention quotes spell it out quite clearly. Engaging in activities hostile to the state can include supporting a military force that is threatening the sovereignty of the country. That can be applied to all the citizens supporting the separatist. Thus removing the restrictions on using force in civilian areas that openly support the presence of the separatist. (What article do you think Syria has been relying on so heavily?) Once hostilities cease, then and all the people that surrendered can be tried by the court system of that country and can be punished by what ever means is considered acceptable by the country as long as they have a fair and open trial. If the country’s legal system considers it acceptable, then they can take those that they have determined to have supported the revolt, and line them up against a wall, and shoot them to the last person. And it will not violate one international law. Yes, I may have stretched it by saying that there is no limit to what they can do after they capture them, but not by much. No limits in force before they surrender, and lining all of them up after the fact and executing all of them (after open trials) is all perfectly legal. If the military determine that holding them prisoner will undermine ongoing operations, then they will be free to kill them to get rid of the burden, but they just can’t torture them. Technicalities, technicalities. |
KipKat
User ID: 25952351 Netherlands 07/30/2014 03:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 7 Reasons Putin's New Russia will fail Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33760534 Staunton, July 29 – As the Ukrainian military closes in on Moscow-backed forces in southeastern Ukraine, Russian commentators are scrambling to explain why the Russian-speaking population in that region have not flocked to the banners of the secessionists in Donetsk and Lugansk. Not surprisingly, these commentators have not focused on the fact that the population there now overwhelmingly identifies as Ukrainians and has no interest in becoming part of the Russian Federation. What they are saying explains a lot about how Moscow is trying to explain away its own miscalculation about the support it would receive. The “Voennoye obozreniye” portal, which is directed at Russian military and patriotic groups, today re-posed a Russian blogger’s list of “the seven reasons why men in the Donbas don’t want to fight in the ranks of the militants” from. Based on a visit to the region, the blogger, whose screen name is Politchanka, lists the following reasons: 1. “The absence of an authoritative leader among the militants,” including the fact that most of those in prominent positions are not local but from Russia and Moscow. Many people there, she says, “do not like Muscovites.” 2. “The negative example of the ‘heavenly hundred.’” The memory of the deaths of more than 100 people on the Maidan suggests that fighting at the risk of the loss of one’s own life may be pointless. “In the opinion of the Donetsk people, only fools fight and die for some idea; smart people survive and vacation in Crimea.” 3. “Marauding and extortion.” People have been put off, Politchanka continues, by the theft of automobiles by unidentified people and the fact that the authorities are incapable of doing anything about this. 4. “The militants do not defend the cities.” The militants defend their own houses; but when Ukrainian forces attack the towns, they “depart” for somewhere quiet, something others cannot do. 5. “Internal splits.” “It is no secret,” she writes, that the leaders are constantly fighting among themselves about who is the most important." 6. “The inability of the militants to maintain normal everyday infrastructure in the city.” Stores, schools and hospitals are closed, and “people do not see any prospects.” As a result, “they aren’t joining the ranks of the militants.” 7. “The lack of correspondence between the expectations the referendum sparked and reality.” People in Donetsk and Lugansk hoped everything would be as it was in Crimea. “No one told them that they would be bombed and have to sit in basements without having the opportunity even to eat normally. “Therefore they do not want to fight.” "Why People in Eastern Ukraine Haven’t Flocked to Secessionist Banners" by: Paul Goble [link to www.interpretermag.com] :kkwapper: |